Official Health Care Reform Debate

[BKFraiders7]

Go at it





My opinion- I hate it. The government requiring you to buy something in a free country is wrong. Then if you dont pay it you get taxed. Dont pay that then jail time. 1 step closer to socialist society. I side with the States that are wanting to sue the federal government over this.

It is honestly making people not want to hire. Say the least amount of people you had to have on staff was 50 to make you have to pay for insurance. I would not want to hire that 50th person. Which means one less job for an American. It will drive companies to other countries (read: China) for their workforce where in a time like this we so desperately do not need.

Also, and I have nothing against African Americans here, but it singles them out to get more benefits as well as bigger states such as California and New York...which makes me mad how its not fair across the board.

[crait]

http://brewology.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17593
I already started a thread for it, today!
Oh, by the way....
I hate it, too! You shouldn't be forced to buy anything!! Thank you for someone else finally saying that publicly!
Just like how you're required to pay for insurance on your car or property taxes! I'm not being sarcastic whatsoever.
Why can't someone live off of their own land and manage their own life without being charged by the government for living?

[BKFraiders7]

http://brewology.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17593
I already started a thread for it, today!
Oh, by the way....
I hate it, too! You shouldn't be forced to buy anything!! Thank you for someone else finally saying that publicly!
Just like how you're required to pay for insurance on your car or property taxes! I'm not being sarcastic whatsoever.
Why can't someone live off of their own land and manage their own life without being charged by the government for living?

Yea I saw it...but "roads to el paso" doesnt sound as official as official health care debate thread


Anyway, I kinda agree with you about the car and property tax. With the car insurance your not being forced to pay..because you dont have to have a car. With the land...well you can live with a friend or in the woods and not have to pay it. Health care though, you cant get out of it and thats why I dont like it.

I'm obviously Canadian and I know about this bill but what exactly is it. Please don't just point the obvious bad stuff, list some of the good things about it as well. It kind of sucks not everybody can be like Canada or the UK? Why is it so hard not to be the same?

[crait]

In this day and age, nearly everyone needs a car for some reason or another and it's bogus that we have to pay for something that we already own. And it's forcing us to pay companies that aren't even related to the government!! Why should the government be allowed to tell us that we must put aside and save money through a third party that will keep a lot of it? Why not force us to keep the money in a bank instead?
What about this: What if they made everyone need computer insurance? It's ridiculous but then people would say, "If you don't want to pay for insurance, then don't buy a computer." Well, some people need a computer for their jobs and others to get through school! Why should the government be allowed to take money from us for something that we need to operate our daily lives?
That's just how I view car insurance, though.

And with property tax, you've already purchased a place to live, so why must we also pay rent??
It has to be one or the other.

P.S.
This thread wasn't 'Official' until you change the topic name!

EDIT:

I'm obviously Canadian and I know about this bill but what exactly is it. Please don't just point the obvious bad stuff, list some of the good things about it as well. It kind of sucks not everybody can be like Canada or the UK? Why is it so hard not to be the same?

All it is is health insurance that the government will offer for lower income families so they won't need to rely on third party companies. A business is a business and its motive is money so they're going to jack up the prices like in a 'trust.' In America, trusts are illegal so this is going to help prevent on that is really needed.
A lot of people, mainly Republicans and conspirators, are trying to say that the government is going to force us all to use this health care. That's just one thing people are scared about because the bill is over a thousand pages.
Another thing people are concerned about is that they will be funding (ndirectly through taxes) people that are kinda poor.

I'm obviously Canadian and I know about this bill but what exactly is it. Please don't just point the obvious bad stuff, list some of the good things about it as well. It kind of sucks not everybody can be like Canada or the UK? Why is it so hard not to be the same?

But you guys have had this kind of system for a long time. We just got it and Needs kinks to be worked out. It is Crap so far. I have no insurance at all so I am F****D I have to pay taxes on it or jail. i mean WTF. what about the poor who dont have jobs and cant get them? Crap man the "democrats" who were so against taxing the rich and stuff just gave the rich ppl more rights. If your rich you can afford to pay and get seen cuz they have the CA$H. And being seen for minor probs is okay the big problems you are put on wating list. I mean WTF OBAMA you dumbass SOB!!!!

[crait]

You're going to be put on a waiting list, Tyler? Really? If you're in need of medical attention, you're going to have to wait for treatment? I think that's highly unlikely unless you need a kidney.
People think that all the hospitals of the nation are suddenly going to be overcrowded by people without money and there's going to be a list that they're going to have to wait on for every little thing. That's not true. They think that's how it is in Canada, and that's not true.
We may even eventually have similar health insurance as France and their hospitals aren't flooded with patients and in fact, it's one of the best in the world.

It's for old people. When we become old we can change the law back.

But what will we do then?

[brentbizzle]

From what I've read, the UK has a pretty bad medical system. A lot of countries whose governments provide insurance have decent care for normal people, but terminally ill patients run into problems and end up coming to the US for treatment, paying out of their own pocket. Its hard for them to get proper treatment in their own countries.

Ok, so insurance and property taxes, completely different story. You SHOULD be required to have some kind of insurance on a car. Driving is a PRIVILEGE, not a right. And property taxes, well, it's a tax. If you took away property taxes than the money would have to be made up somewhere else, and no matter where you take it from people won't be happy. At least a property tax can keep things in perspective. Poor people who can't buy property don't pay it, and wealthier people with high value property pay more.

Now, to the health care issue.
1. We should NOT BE SPENDING MONEY! Right now the US is accusing China of currency manipulation and China is looking for assurance that we will keep the dollar stable. Not a comfy situation considering China owns most of the US debt. If China comes looking to collect, good bye US economy. You thought the financial crisis was bad? We'll become a 3rd world country economically.

2. Hey, anyone hear the news about the US possibly loosing its AAA credit rating? Again, read #1.

3. Forcing people to buy something is very un-American as people have stated before. Although I should also note that if insurance will cost more than 8% of your yearly income you don't have to get it.

4. Last I read tied to this bill was also a slight reduction in government support for college education. It would put a freeze on the amount the government spends over the next 2 years instead of increasing, and through 5 years after that it will increase slower than originally planned.

5. The cost of health care for those that already have it is going to go up and the amount they can spend on it is going to decrease. Sounds awesome doesn't it?

6. So even though we are reducing spending on education, fining those who have no health care, requiring other to purchase it, and raising the price of health care for those who already have it, it is STILL going to cost the government tons of money. Again, see #1.

7. None of this starts till 2014.

WE DON'T NEED HEALTH CARE REFORM WHEN WE DON'T HAVE MONEY TO SPEND. OBAMA IS GOING TO BANKRUPT THIS COUNTRY AND HE WON'T EVEN BE IN OFFICE WHEN HEALTH CARE REFORM KICKS IN!!

Currently doctors have to treat patients but patients currently don't have to pay so hospitals pass that cost to people that do pay (the insured)

How else do we fix this besides making everyone get insurance?

Currently doctors have to treat patients but patients currently don't have to pay so hospitals pass that cost to people that do pay (the insured)

How else do we fix this besides making everyone get insurance?

There is a lady in my sunday school class taht used to work for the Hospital bill pay collerctor ppl or whatever they are called. And they have programs that you are not told about on how to pay your bill by groups that do that kind of thinkg if you are eligable, all you have to do is appy and bam bill payed. its like a college loan that you dont pay back.


And OBAMA isnt doin crap at all he goes on vacation every secnd he can, wif butch donkey wife it probably tellin him what to do sincee his balls are in her handbag.

[crait]

Bankrupt us? How is getting less involved in the war going to not save money?
Also, I know what you mean by it's a privilage to drive but why should we be forced to buy something from a third party? That's like the government forcing us to buy a meal from McDonald's a week.
I think that the government should be required to offer government-run car insurance, too.
@Que: Are you sure that's how it works?

I think that the government should be required to offer government-run car insurance, too.
@Que: Are you sure that's how it works?

Government Employee Insurance Company (GEICO)eventually opened to the public.

As for how it works I know of one case that I am sure is not unique.

A neighbor had a heart attack and since he had no job he had no insurance. He went to emergency room and they treated him. In fact MILLIONS go to emergency room with sniffles now because they have to treat you there but when the bill comes in they don't pay it because they can't.

My neighbor got like a $75,000 bill for his hospital stay and as I mentioned he can't pay. People go bankrupt when they get ill and recieve the bill. Bankruptcy relieves the individual of the debt but the time and resources have already gone into the patient.

What other choice does the hospital have but charge more for its services to make up the difference?

@ Tyler
Why aren't people told of alternative methods to pay for their treatment?

[ace]

Bankrupt us? How is getting less involved in the war going to not save money?
Also, I know what you mean by it's a privilage to drive but why should we be forced to buy something from a third party? That's like the government forcing us to buy a meal from McDonald's a week.
I think that the government should be required to offer government-run car insurance, too.

Not trying to go off topic, but I completely agree with buying Car Insurance. Have you ever totaled your car in an accident with someone who didn't have insurance? Yea...not a good thing. Actually pisses me off when you get in a wreck with someone that doesn't have insurance and it's their fault. Don't want to buy car insurance? Don't drive. Personally I don't see why you would want to not have car insurance, with all of the wrecks out there that "aren't your fault" why would you even risk not driving without insurance?

Okay yea that was off topic, but if it's really needed we can make a thread about insurance as well and split the posts.

@ Que. I am really not sure But that is what the lady said. AI looked into it. And I got my 6,000 dollar Bill paid. But I thnk it takes away from something I am not sure tho XD