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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:50 pm
by crait
Sweeeet! All we need to do is attack America from the inside!

(And actually not cover it up!)

PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:33 pm
by crait
OMFG. I've been looking at Michael Moore's videos and I've got to say, he is smart.
I really, really want to see SiCKO, now. I love these videos of him on CNN and stuff, just completely killing hosts and shutting down their claims with hard evidence.
Why have I never seen this before?


Medicaide and Medicare are government run and everyone praises them... Why are people opposed to government run health care but praise these securities?!

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:28 am
by que13x
Michael Moore brings up some good points I just don't agree with his solutions. He has a bad reputation with most conservatives who consider him a liberal socialist.

The thing is that if you hear bad things about someone long enough after a while you begin to believe them whether or not they are true.

So Moore has a label of "idiot" hanging over his head for most people but most people have never seen his work.

I like his work. I just don't always agree with his solutions.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:54 pm
by brentbizzle
You guys are debating the wrong thing. Everyone that is for reform in this thread is for the idea of reform, and not what was actually passed. I don't know all the specifics because I'm still learning more about what was actually passed, but keep these things in mind.

1. To "save money" the health care reform is actually cutting back on medicare benefits.

2. The original medicare bill says that any money saved needs to go back into the health care system but Obama is re-appropriating the funds into other government programs. So we aren't actually "saving money" because it's just being spent again, illegally at that.

3. Another way money is being "saved" is by cutting back funding for higher education. Not only that, but there is now a restriction in place which makes it harder for banks to compete with federal loans which means even less money for people to use for college at absolutely NO benefit to anyone.

And some other things to think about...

The federal government is supposed to work for us, not the other way around. Now more than ever the federal government has their hand so far into the private sector. The bailout money companies were given was supposed to be put back towards the deficit when it's paid back. Is Obama doing this? No, he's keeping the money out there in other programs. So our deficit is just increasing. Also, because of the bailout, the government now owns huge stakes in many major companies including GM and AIG. Now to raise funds, it looks like Obama is going to sell government shares of AIG to other countries... seriously, wtf.

Obama certainly is making "change." He's f**king ruining our country.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:09 pm
by crait
I don't think I said that I support this bill.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:56 pm
by brentbizzle
crait wrote:I don't think I said that I support this bill.

I don't think I said you said you supported the bill. I kept my comments general for a reason.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:18 pm
by crait
Well, for people who skim read, I'm making my stance known.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:30 pm
by que13x
brentbizzle wrote:You guys are debating the wrong thing. Everyone that is for reform in this thread is for the idea of reform, and not what was actually passed. I don't know all the specifics because I'm still learning more about what was actually passed...

Dude no one knows. People are still sifting through it.
brentbizzle wrote:Obama certainly is making "change." He's f**king ruining our country.

You have every right to be angry. However I hope you felt the same way when W was ruining the country too.

Homeland Security was supposed to prevent another 9/11 from happening. Well look at what happened over Christmas. There were plenty of warnings like before and again the ball was dropped just like before and no one has been reprimanded or fired for it, just like before. Taxpayers paid $50 billion dollars to DHS in 2009 so the government could fall asleep at the wheel again? George W. Bush presided over the biggest federal budget expansion since Franklin Delano Roosevelt seven decades ago. The bailouts were Bush's idea too! Where was the anger back when he was president? How come no one remembers Bush as a national socialist? How come no one painted his face as the joker? The man could barely speak in complete sentences for crying out loud!

Obama isn't perfect and I am not too sure about this healthcare deal either but something had to be done. Aging Babyboomers flooding emergency rooms with no way to pay for treatment would have put our current system in an unsustainable position. Now that some sort of reform is in place (I really don't know what it is). I think it will be easier to make adjustments accordingly. We will have to wait and see.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:05 pm
by brentbizzle
Yes, Bush started the bailout process, but he wasn't there to see the payback come in. Obama has and hasn't been putting the money back like he should be doing! Instead it's being filtered out into programs and people see these fantastic programs being funded and not the newly printed money being shipped off to China and Japan.

I can't speak as to what happened with the Christmas bombing. I don't even know that much about it as I've been living abroad since 2007 and US stuff is usually only mentioned, not plastered all over the news. Not to mention I'm living in a Japanese household and if I do catch any live TV, it's usually Japanese programming.

The bailouts were Bush's idea too! Where was the anger back when he was president?

I do have to say that this is probably the dumbest thing I've seen you post. I'm not saying Bush was awesome, hell, I'm not defending him in any way. But for every decision Bush made, every step he took... ESPECIALLY in his second term, he was met with criticism all over the press. In fact I remember a lot of public outrage when he was putting together the first bailout plan!

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:34 pm
by que13x
brentbizzle wrote:Yes, Bush started the bailout process, but he wasn't there to see the payback come in.

I don't know what is happening with the money. Yes I would like to see the debt paid off too. Bill Clinton didn't balance the budget until he was in his second term. I don't know if Obama will have that opportunity but I do know that it takes more than a year to get things done in Washington so the public needs to be patient and see. When Bush was cutting taxes and fighting two wars there was no talk of debt that I recall reading about. I dunno maybe I missed it.
brentbizzle wrote:
que13x wrote:The bailouts were Bush's idea too! Where was the anger back when he was president?

I do have to say that this is probably the dumbest thing I've seen you post.

No one in America hung George Bush in effigy when he was still a candidate. No one in the media came out and publicly said they wanted to see candidate Bush fail. No one implied that Bush was an abomination or not a natural born citizen or a non-Christian before he was president. No one complained about the expansion of government while he was president either. In fact the "anger" against Bush never really came out until late in his second term. The people were angry about the election but that seemed to have passed after 9/11. Eventually, some did want to impeach Bush. Dennis Kucinich Democrat from Ohio brought 30 articles of impeachment to Congress. Nancy Pelosi Democrat from California blocked all of them. How ironic. What do you make of that?

I know I sound like I am defending Obama but I am really only making comparisons. I watched the movie Recount I have read a few books like Hubris and countless articles online and I make it a point to avoid television. If that makes my posts dumb then don't read them.


From www.kiplinger.com

The new health care reform law is full of new taxes and tax increases that will affect many individuals and businesses. I hope we all are aware that taxes were going up, they had to go up. Unfortunately, it will be years before most of these hikes take effect.

1. A new 10% excise tax on indoor tanning services on services provided after June 30, 2010.

2. The new law gives small firms tax credits as incentives to provide coverage, starting this tax year. Employers with 10 or fewer workers and average annual wages of less than $25,000 can receive a credit of up to 35% of their health premium costs each year through 2013. The credit is phased out for firms larger than that and disappears completely if a company has more than 25 employees or average annual wages of $50,000 or more. Beginning in 2014, small firms that sign up with one of the health exchanges to be created can receive a credit of up to 50% of their costs.

3. A requirement that businesses include the value of the health care benefits they provide to employees on W-2s, beginning with W-2s for 2011.

4. Elimination of a deduction employers now take for providing Medicare Part D prescription drug coverage to their retirees to the extent that the federal government subsidizes the coverage. This will not take effect until 2013.

5. Doubling the penalty for nonqualified distributions from health savings accounts, to 20%, beginning in 2011.

6. A limit on the amount that employees can contribute to health care flexible spending accounts to $2,500 a year, but the cap won’t take effect until 2013.

7. A ban on using funds from flexible spending accounts, health reimbursement arrangements or health savings accounts for the cost of over-the-counter medications, starting in 2011.

8. Starting in 2013, a 0.9% Medicare surtax will apply to wages in excess of $200,000 for single taxpayers and over $250,000 for married couples. Also, for the first time ever, a Medicare tax will apply to investment income of high earners. The 3.8% levy will hit the lesser of (1) their unearned income or (2) the amount by which their adjusted gross income exceeds the $200,000 or $250,000 threshold amounts. The new law defines unearned income as interest, dividends, capital gains, annuities, royalties, and rents. Tax-exempt interest won’t be included, nor will income from retirement accounts.
.

9. A hike in the 7.5% floor on itemized deductions for medical expenses to 10%, beginning in 2013. But taxpayers age 65 and over are exempt from the cutback through 2016.

10. A new 40% excise tax, beginning in 2018, on high-cost health plans, levied on the portion that exceeds $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families.

11. A new tax on individuals who don't obtain adequate health coverage by 2014. The tax is be phased in over three years, starting at the greater of $95, or 1% of income, in 2014, and rising to the greater of $695, or 2.5% of income, in 2016.

12. Providing a refundable tax credit, once the individual mandate takes effect in 2014, to help low-income folks purchase coverage. To be eligible, a person's household income must be between 100% and 400% of the federal poverty level, generally around $11,000 to $44,000 for singles and $22,000 to $88,000 for families.

13. A nondeductible fee charged to businesses with 50 or more employees if the firms fail to offer adequate coverage. The fee will equal $2,000 times the number of employees, though it won’t count the first 30 workers in that calculation.

I wonder what happens if you find yourself without a job to pay for your health benefits.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:30 am
by The Cookie Monster
the thing in a better way :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbR9oltfbjI

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:59 pm
by que13x
Well it goes like this...

If the Democrats have truly "F" up America then the Republicans should take over congress. Obama will serve ONE term and be replaced by a Republican president probably Huckabee if he runs.

With a Republican MAJORITY and a Republican President this "healthcare" thing should get repealed scrapped and or reoverhauled. Right? Wrong.

I bet what little I am worth that NOTHING will be done to change what we have to the way it was or to make it better in any way that makes sense. It's all theater.

Watch and see.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:03 pm
by DarkPacMan77
que13x wrote:Well it goes like this...

If the Democrats have truly "F" up America then the Republicans should take over congress. Obama will serve ONE term and be replaced by a Republican president probably Huckabee if he runs.

With a Republican MAJORITY and a Republican President this "healthcare" thing should get repealed scrapped and or reoverhauled. Right? Wrong.

I bet what little I am worth that NOTHING will be done to change what we have to the way it was or to make it better in any way that makes sense. It's all theater.

Watch and see.


I think it was Margaret Thatcher that had said it best: "The problem with Socialism is you always run out of other people's money."

-DarkPacMan77-

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:49 pm
by airplanes18
que13x wrote:Well it goes like this...

If the Democrats have truly "F" up America then the Republicans should take over congress. Obama will serve ONE term and be replaced by a Republican president probably Huckabee if he runs.

With a Republican MAJORITY and a Republican President this "healthcare" thing should get repealed scrapped and or reoverhauled. Right? Wrong.

I bet what little I am worth that NOTHING will be done to change what we have to the way it was or to make it better in any way that makes sense. It's all theater.

Watch and see.


i partially agree. mostly agree. i say SOME action will be taken. how affective? eh....


It's Politics

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:21 am
by que13x
airplanes18 wrote: It's Politics

It's worse than that.