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Official Religion Debate Thread

What faith do you practice, or would most closely associate your beliefs with?

Christianity
29
48%
Buddhism
1
2%
Hinduism
1
2%
Judaism
1
2%
Agnosticism / Atheism
15
25%
Other
3
5%
None or Undecided
5
8%
I'm not sure
5
8%
 
Total votes : 60
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DarkPacMan77

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Post Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:53 pm

Official Religion Debate Thread

This thread is dedicated to open-minded discussion and debate about religion in general. The posts of this thread are to remain respectful. No post in this thread may be a flame post directly assaulting any other member. Post courteously and respectfully. If any post does not adhere to this simple request, we, the staff, would like to have you report it to us so that further administrative judgment can determine the outcome of the post. Also, since posts were rather long in the last thread, let's please try to limit the overall length of the posts that you make in this thread so that it makes this thread a more friendly avenue for debate. Thank you.

Carrying on from the previous thread...

But if the bible says thats what really happened then I believe it. How else could you explain the world around you? No ones been proven wrong, and never will be until they die or judgement day.


1. What if J.K. Rowling said Jesus played quidditch with Harry Potter? Why believe a book?

2. Science proves theoretical points through hypothesis and experimentation. Religion [fails to] prove the world around you by teaching you completely outlandish things are true.

3. What science and mathematics can't prove true is therefor false, and science cannot prove that the bible was or wasn't a ficticious novel. Science can also not prove that there was ever a living Jesus Christ, where his remains or burial site are, where any remains of his family are, where heaven is... etc. That must mean that religion is false, no?

-DarkPacMan77-
Last edited by DarkPacMan77 on Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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farquezy

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Post Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:29 pm

lol i like how ace is telling me to mature, whe he is the one dodging all my questions and LOCKING A THREAT JUST BECAUSE HE WAS GETTING OWNED. Your the one with BFK that crys about double posting. Your the one that hate me. And then im the imature one?

yah thats so mature, as i said before, i treat people how they deserve to be treated, you dont see me going around talking smack about adventwolf. I mean atleast advent answer everything i throw at you all and doesnt complain unlike you and BFK that only say the same thing OVER AND OVER and ignore my questions and statements i throw at you, and thats why its mumble jumbo.

And in real life i am prolly the most mature and respectful person youll meet for my age, but over the internet i dont care, because if you get offended by such things over THE INTER WITHOUT KNOWING THE PERSON YOU TALK TO, that man i dont know there must be something wrong around here, or maybe im just retarded?

lol, i like how we are bashing each other, proof of religion and its hate, and i admit, i go towards religious people with hate to, but only certain people, not all because there are many religious people i know such as my friends that i respect.

BUT I AM SORRY AND ILL TRY TO BE NICE AND RESPECTFUL THIS TIME AROUND :)

Yay this threat sounds like fun :lol:
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Post Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:56 pm

I live in a world where Kings and Queens rule. There is no being mightier than they, because they with the flash of their eyes can have someone (anyone) killed or locked up for ever. I am after killing the Queen Galaga, she has killed all my family and friends, and I am out for vengeance. Wish me luck on my quest. The universe I speak of is Galaxian, and I am packing up some fire power to get to that ultimate war.

Aside from that, I only have this to say. I like when religions focus on goodness and helpfulness. I dislike when religions begin to divide the people (like turf gangs) when they are claiming they are the only ones following the true God and the rest are in the dark. If they are gonna twist religion with war, then we are no better than the crusaders of the medieval days and all those "unofficial" popes that made things worst with so much confusion and hatred to just gain power over naive and unprotected people.

The power to be good can be all you ever need to be in a better state of mind (both in spirit and mind). Believe what you want, but try to see the good in yourself, before expecting see the good in other people.

That's it for me.
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Post Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:00 pm

I dnt belive in Religion, my belief was that it was made up to explain how this world etc was created ages ago but now science explains that to us with more facts then religion ever could we have no need for religion. The problem there is that religion has become to mainstream and part of this culture to much but one day it will die out....
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DarkPacMan77

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Post Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:09 pm

Darksleem wrote:I dnt belive in Religion, my belief was that it was made up to explain how this world etc was created ages ago but now science explains that to us with more facts then religion ever could we have no need for religion. The problem there is that religion has become to mainstream and part of this culture to much but one day it will die out....


Religion has never been able to "prove" itself, but meanwhile, science has. I have the "faith" within myself that would much rather believe that science will come up with proof that will officially undermine religion. I'm far more unlikely to believe that religion will somehow find a way to further clarify and justify itself - to prove itself. I couldn't agree more, Darksleem.

@ farquezy ~ Ease up on BKF and ace. I'm sure that BKF and ace will be able to answer your questions from their perspective if you listed your questions in a more easily understood fashion. Above, I even color-coordinated my main points to cross-examine ace's. Using color code or listing (1. 2. 3. etc.) are probably the best way(s) to make sure everything is covered.

-DarkPacMan77-
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ace

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Post Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:22 am

@ dpm
1. Because, the bible isn't a book that was just recently recently by a single author. I know there are other collections of books saying else, but I mean the bible was written ( or at least is supposed to) to be written by a large account of people over 2,000 years ago. To me it's just like reading a textbook from school. There are many historical books that we can believe, but this one I think is true too.

2.Science and mathematics are based around things you can touch. Correct me if I'm wrong but the basic idea is if you can't touch it then it has to be fake. But I have faith that the bible is true, because we do have the red sea scrolls to at least compare it to somewhat. It says God created the earth, and I believe that's true because I don't see how say Scientology could possibly be real. I just believe in my heart because it seems right to me.

3. Just because science can't prove it doesn't mean it isn't real. Science couldn't prove the earth was round until later in time. There are plenty of places in my history books where science couldn't prove something until society advanced. I don't see how science could possibly find where Jesus's remains are, because he rose from the dead, I don't know about tracing a family back 2,000 years but I would guess that involves a little guessing in between, and heaven? That is just out of scope of this world, something you experience when you die. Until scientists figure out a way to die and then come back a live for a extended period of time, then I don't see how they could possibly prove it right or wrong. Scientists don't know if it's true because they haven't proved it right or wrong. Maybe in the future they will, but that's what I meant by saying no one knows if it is true or not. You yourself don't know if God is real or not.

I mean have you actually proved it wrong dpm? (I figured i'd ask a question too) Have you actually proven it completely wrong that everything the bible says is rubbish? Have you unlocked the hidden mystery of how the universe and elements were made?

I tried to condense my post as much as possible hope it helped.
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Post Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:54 am

Placeholder for the post when I pwn all religion. I'm in electricity class right now and have to get back to my lab. =D

P.S. religion = malarchy
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que13x

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Post Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Official Religion Debate Thread

DarkPacMan77 wrote:But if the bible says thats what really happened then I believe it. How else could you explain the world around you? No ones been proven wrong, and never will be until they die or judgement day.

I will give you that but the debate begins on how the verses are interpreted, I will get to that in a minute...
DarkPacMan77 wrote:1. What if J.K. Rowling said Jesus played quidditch with Harry Potter? Why believe a book?

2. Science proves theoretical points through hypothesis and experimentation. Religion [fails to] prove the world around you by teaching you completely outlandish things are true.

3. What science and mathematics can't prove true is therefor false, and science cannot prove that the bible was or wasn't a fictitious novel. Science can also not prove that there was ever a living Jesus Christ, where his remains or burial site are, where any remains of his family are, where heaven is... etc. That must mean that religion is false, no?-DarkPacMan77-


#1 I would prefer not to speculate on Jesus and potter on the grounds that this situation is improbable and probably will spark more debate than this thread.

#2 The bible is written unfortunately, in a way that leaves much interpretation to the reader. In a single passage it can go from the figurative to literal. The fact that the bible was passed down orally for hundreds or even thousands of years makes true interpretation that much more difficult.

#3 Biblical Archeology is a branch of science that started shortly after the discovery of the Red Sea Scrolls. Much of what is in the bible has been verified at least with the cities and some events such as wars (battlefield remains). Any evidence that remains has simply not yet been found or it has possibly been destroyed since towns are usually built on top of other towns.

Jesus is Greek for one that was anointed, Y'ashua was his name.

The Remains of a Y'ashua were found in 1980 under an apartment building in Jerusalem in a first century family tomb. The remains of 2 females named Mary and a Matthew were found within it among others.

I believe the discovery turned traditional Christianity into a numbers game, where one has to take into account how likely it would be to have more than one family with specific new testament names coexisting at a bout the same. This is not proof nor intended to disprove anything. I am just bringing this up for something to think about.

Also we do not know what was added or taken away by the early Roman Catholic Church. I do know that the original Roman religion had many gods and these gods were replaced with saints when the transformation into Catholicism began. Many original Roman Holidays were converted into Christian Holidays. Christmas for example, was originally a week long festival known as Saturnalia, imagine a week long opposite day. Easter and Passover have been merged and somehow Easter has been connected to the rebirth of Christ. (out of room, thanks for reading)
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ace

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Post Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:09 am

Easter and the holidays do puzzle me though. Correct me if I am wrong, but Easter came from the word Eostre which is like a anglo-saxan(sp?) Goddess. I'll have to read about it some more. I just celebrate the holidays because what they are meant to celebrate in todays world. But it is still interesting as to what the holidays use to be, and where the name comes from. I know in different versions of bibles Passover and Easter are used interchangeably.
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Post Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:24 am

@ que ~ My point about Harry Potter and Jesus Christ is that neither can be proven to be any more real than one another and that what is written in a book, however old, doesn't mean that it's true. I'd argue that during the time the Roman Catholic Church used its power to keep people in line and during all of the years that the bible was simply spoken about and not written, that the original meaning of Christianity, as a whole, had been tainted and is not reflective of its true origins. I also know about the supposed burial site of Y'ashua. What's important to realize is that Mary, Mathew, and Y'ashua were all such common names back then that it's completely impossible, COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE, to link that burial site with Jesus Christ. It doesn't prove nor disprove Jesus Christ, and therefor, it's just a burial site.

Now stay with me guys, because this is a little long.

@ ace ~ No, I haven't been able to prove that Jesus Christ didn't exist, that heaven isn't real, or even that there is a life after death. No, I'm brilliant, but not that exceptionally brilliant. I did, however, find other aspects of my life to be equally unbelievable; just as a "savior in the sky" idea is, all I had to do was use my logic and reasoning abilities to disprove and discredit those aspects of my life. Ideas such as the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and even the gold at the end of the rainbow with all of the leprechauns are all ideas that I've been able to use my LOGIC in order to better understand the world I was forced into and lied about.

The Tooth Fairy doesn't exist because we all took our teeth to our mother when we were a child and what did she say? "Put it under your pillow (or wherever else) and the Tooth Fairy will come and give you money". That's just a lie. The tooth fairy doesn't exist, doesn't use the same currency as us in the United States, and I'm pretty sure that if the Tooth Fairy was real, she wouldn't have looked exactly like my mother... of whom I caught putting a quarter under my pillow, not the Tooth Fairy.

Santa Claus isn't real because geologically, there isn't enough food in the North Pole to feed Santa and all of his elves that create all of the toys in the world. Financially, Santa isn't real because nobody can buy his stock, and it would seem one would like to do so if he has such a successful business operation going on there. And he isn't real mathematically and scientifically because it's impossible to visit every house in the world on Christmas, especially since more than half the world doesn't believe in him at all, or the Christian faith as a whole, for that matter.

The Easter Bunny doesn't exist because the idea of a big f**king bunny that gives little kids easter eggs is completely outlandish, especially when you consider the fact that you either painted the eggs yourself or you bought plastic ones at the store in which to hide money and candy inside for an easter egg hunt. The Easter Bunny doesn't even give you an "IOU", a promissory note, cash, or a tax rebate in which to pay for the eggs.

Gold at the end of the rainbow has been scientifically proven to not exist because you can't actually LOCATE the end of a rainbow. A rainbow is simply a reflection of light seen at a certain angle. Someone on the other side of town might not even be able to see the same rainbow you are looking at, but instead see another... and I'm not even going to explain why Leprechauns aren't real.

Jesus Christ/ God isn't real, because I've never met him. I've never seen him on TV. I've never heard of anybody [sane] that has seen him... and the "500 people that saw him rise from the grave" can't be trusted. Ghosts, demons, maleficent beings of any kind have yet to be proven for an equally same amount of time as Jesus Christ has been, and just because a handful of people believe it to be correct, doesn't make it correct. There are far more than 500 people in the modern institution known as the Ku Klux Klan, but that doesn't mean that their beliefs are correct either, but at least you could go shake their hand if you wanted to.

I grew up at 13 years old. I read about different religions. And I stopped believing in fairy tales. I'm 19 now and you don't know how good it feels to not be bound by rules and speculation that are not proven and which you only recognize because people in your family raised you into believing. At some point in time, you need to read for yourself. You need to understand different culture, and then, and ONLY then, will you sit down alone and say to yourself, "man, those Aztecs... how in the world could they ever believe that the Sun was their ultimate being?" - and then it will click to you, and you'll understand that somewhere else in the world there is a Muslim or a Jew, and they're sitting alone, just like you, and they're thinking, "Man... those Christians... why would they ever believe...".

Then, you'll realize that no religion is correct, and therefor, can't be trusted. Religion is false.

-DarkPacMan77-
Last edited by DarkPacMan77 on Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ace

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Post Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:41 am

LMAO! I'm sorry, everything except the last paragraph was hilarious. Very nicely put dpm, even though that's gotta exceed the post limits your trying to enforce for this thread. Very nicely put, I love them. But as for the last paragraph, I mean all the examples are children stories purposely created to entertain children (with the exception of Santa Clause, who was real, but died). I mean of course they are fake, but on a much smaller scale then religion. But thats cool man, thats a difference that we will never settle. Many people have to touch it to believe it is there, and many don't need to touch it to believe its there. I mean of course I don't believe no one has seen him that is a live in modern times. If 500 eye witnesses are enough for a U.S. Judge, then they are enough for me :p That reminds me of a court case I saw about a guy had to pay the owner of a dog $4k for shooting it because the flippin dog chased him into his yard and was growling at him. But thats for another thread I should make.

Can the KKK really be considered a institute?

So, what is everyones opinions on animals, does anything believe they have a soul?
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Post Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:54 am

ace_012 wrote:Can the KKK really be considered a institute?


in·sti·tu·tion / Pronunciation Key - [in-sti-too-shuhn, -tyoo-]
–noun

1. an organization, establishment, foundation, society, or the like, devoted to the promotion of a particular cause or program.

To put it simply, yes.

Also, regarding my examples being children stories, I'd have to say that Christianity is also a children's story.

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Post Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:50 am

for something to exist, its a VERY SIMPLE concept E=MC(squared), this solution is the solution used to prove things exist.
Now in order for something to exist, it must consist of either MATTER or ENERGY, therefore if god exits, he must consist of Matter or Energy, so if god DOESNT compose of matter or energy that god doesnt exist.
So arguing that god exists, with absence the proof showing god consists of matter or energy, is to argue existence= non existence. This is a complete contradiction.

If a god exists, than he must consist of matter or energy which he doesnt, which means he doesnt exist.

Now Christian base their beliefs on faith, but isnt that against all that our society stands for? Do you go to court saying " i have faith he killed my mom" and the judge goes " well your faith is strong, i believe you"??
No, we use evidence to prove our statements to be true, now evidence to me would be at least more than 5 of the 20 historians who lived the same time jesus lived, and talked about him in their books.
Now out of these 20 historians, only 2 mentioned very little about jesus, dont forget these were european/middleeastern historians who's words are used today. So why do these historians fail to mention jesus?

Now i got my information form other people, and if i am wrong about these historians then please prove me wrong.

Now everyone, lets have fun, and not get all mad at each other about this stupid thing like Ace, BFK, and me did, its just an argument over the internet, chill and have fun!
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Post Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:22 pm

Well that seems to be a very popular argument farq, I mean it is basically just like what dpm, since he can't touch it (matter or energy) then obviously it can't be real. It's basically like answering what dpm already said. It's pretty crazy to me, but for the evidence thing most people (including me) just talk about the 500 people that saw Jesus after he rose. I could easily say, well you say pluto is real, but has anyone actually ever touched it? How do you know its real? By reading something about it or watching a video right? Well then its the same as reading the Bible, plenty of people support the teachings of the bible, as well as many people believe that pluto is real. I'm sure you will come up with some smart remark though, but I'll leave it open to discussion. I really don't have the answers to all these questions :p I'd really like to see what bkf or advent have to say about it though. Faith is a powerful tool, I mean you have faith in what you believe. I'm sure someone could find the meaning of that word though and twist my words just as easy though. But my faith I mean you think what you believe is right. The judge has to have faith that they are making the right decision. You have faith that you will wake up tomorrow morning don't you? Faith is in a lot of things we do. I'm just trying to come up with examples though.
Ok my turn I wanna ask another question!

Obviously you believe the earth was made by some elements randomly hitting each other, but why do we have morals, and laws? I'll try and come up with more clever questions later.
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Post Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:26 pm

In the Bible it speaks of the "great flood". Now you may say "well this is stupid and this can never happen" (which i am sure, farquezy and DPM will say) but why does Indian ancestry, old European ancestry, and just about every other culture have a story of a "long flood that drowned the earth"?

And farquezy.....its BKF not BFK. Easter is the day of Jesus Resurection.
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